Garagem do Clube

Autor Tópico: Sobre os chips....um must (sacado do forum zetecs )  (Lida 4893 vezes)

0 Membros e 1 Visitante estão a ver este tópico.

Offline InsideYou

  • 50CV
  • *
  • Mensagens: 106
  • Feedback: +0/-0
Sobre os chips....um must (sacado do forum zetecs )
« em: 22 de Junho, 2003, 03:39:04 »
Citar
#1.

> Subject: Re: Superchips
> Mike:
>
> >I'm a little confused with this talk of fooling a uP. I'm an EE that does
> >firmware(writes software for uP) and we don't 'fool' the micro, we just
> >tell it what we want it to do. If this Superchip is replacing the
> >eeprom,...
>
> Here is your mistake. In a Ford, the EEC-X computers are sealed and the
> chip is soldered to the computer board making switching of the E-PROM a
> great and risky ordeal. So, what the performance chip makers did was to put
> the chip in a module which is then sandwiched between the wiring harness and
> computer. Read on...


Well, not really. EEC-IV and EEC-V have a connector called the MBUS adapter port. It is basically a multiplexed address/data port on the EEC bus. The sophisticated chip-makers are using the MBUS port and one of its control lines to change the memory map so that base engine strategy and fuel/spark tables are vectored from an external PROM, not the factory PROM. Superchips and Hypertech are both using the MBUS Adapter chip, which we (Ford Microelectronics) designed as an EEC diagnostic and trouble-shooting aid. In order to put a secondary PROM on the MBUS port, one needs the MBUS Adapter chip to interface the new PROM into the EEC bus's data/address strategy.

The EEC family is based on Intel's 806X family of microcontrollers, the newest versions are closest to the 8065. The chipset that comprises EEC is highly customized. Changes include, but are not limited to, much faster bus and processor speeds, revised memory management and paging, revised high speed I/O, a custom instruction set, and the addition of data acquisition to process signals from power train sensors. All this redesign was done to make the microcontroller architecture a more efficient power train controller. I'm a bit biased, but without going to a racing DFI, EEC-IV/V is the best powertrain controller out there, period. The current design was proved out in the Formula 1 racing environment.

If anyone is truly still using the sensor intercept/fooling method, I would stay away from these like the Plague. One common trick is to alter the signal from the Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor, making EEC think the engine is colder, and thus richening the fuel mixtures. This can sometimes be beneficial at mid-range RPM's, especially if one has installed a low restriction exhaust system, which tend to over-scavenge at low speeds and can sometimes benefit from additional fuel. The downside of this technique is that overly-rich mixtures thru the long term will wash the oil from the cylinder walls, accelerating cylinder bore and ring wear, and will also damage the catalytic converters. Another trick is to advance the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) output, making EEC think that the throttle is open further then the speed-load demands are calling for. This approach usually fails because the Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor is the primary factor in calculating engine load, and the TPS output is secondary or tertiary, depending on operating conditions. Some have even tried to fool EEC by altering the MAF output, with results similar to fiddling with the ECT or TPS. You can buy little blobs on the after market to alter the MAF, ECT, and TPS signals, I cannot recommend these if you value the long term health of your engine.

There are several levels of software operating the engine in EEC, the first is the primary strategy, which sets basic operating conditions for the engine: how many cylinders, injector sequencing, spark sequencing if distributor-less ignition, base ignition timing, spark advance/retard strategy, etc.

The second level is processing sensor outputs: exhaust gas oxygen (indicates if fuel mixture is rich or lean), intake air and coolant temperature (drives cold start fuel enrichment and temp-vs-fuel and spark advance strategies), throttle position sensor (tells EEC what your right foot is doing), mass airflow sensor (measures mass of engine's intake air), barometric pressure sensor (provides corrections for fuel/air mix as altitude and air density change as an adjunct to the MAF), knock sensor (a tuned accelerometer that senses the engine's acoustic knock signature), and finally crankshaft and camshaft position sensors, which tell EEC and the distributor-less ignition electronics where the engine is, so the correct fuel injectors and spark plugs are fired at the correct times. All this information is made available to the primary strategy, typically 10 degrees before top dead center (crankshaft) for each cylinder. The third level are the fuel and spark timing lookup tables, often referred to as the base tables. These provide the basic fuel injector pulse widths and spark timing/dwell information that are necessary to run the engine at various RPM's and temperatures. The tables are not all-inclusive, there is no way they could cover all possible operating conditions, so, the primary strategy takes data from the lookup tables, and combines it with real-time sensor data to calculate optimum fuel injector pulse widths and spark timing for (hopefully) all environmental and driving conditions that the vehicle might encounter.

EEC software is also adaptable, if a driveability problem is detected for certain operating conditions, data from the base tables is altered and stored in some volatile memory called Keep Alive Memory (KAM). Volatile means that the stored data will be lost if EEC power is disconnected, such as disconnecting the vehicle battery. This is why your vehicle needs to re-learn its _optimum_ idle if the battery is disconnected. When EEC performs a power-up reset, as in re-connecting the vehicle battery, it checks to see if KAM is corrupted, if so, it clears KAM, and then copies everything from the PROM into KAM; base strategy, base tables, everything. EEC doesn't forget how to idle or run the engine. Everything necessary to run the engine is in the strategy and base tables, but if EEC compensates for wear, or some change in the engine, the adaptation to the base tables that was stored in KAM is lost at power-up reset
and must be re-learned.

Some parts of the base tables are not adaptable, primarily cold start enrichment, part throttle acceleration (PTA), and wide open throttle (WOT) fuel and spark curves. The chip makers primarily mess with PTA and WOT numbers, mucking with anything else can get them in hot water with the EPA and CARB and can affect the normal drive ability of the automobile, which Ford has worked very hard to optimise for you.

In general, some engines can benefit from a bit more fuel at midrange RPM's, so a chip maker might richen-up the midrange fuel curves a bit. He might also push out the part throttle spark advance, necessitating higher octane fuel. More fuel at WOT is of questionable value, Ford's calibrations are usually quite rich, typically 12.5-to-one. (air-to-fuel. Stoichiometry, or the 'perfect' air-to-fuel ratio is 14.65-to-one) The reason for this is to keep exhaust gas
temperatures (EGT) below 1750F. A WOT mixture of 13.5-to-one might provide a bit more torque, but the EGT's might get high enough that the catalytic converters and oxygen sensors would be damaged. You would be surprised just how much code is devoted to keeping the cats from being damaged. Before exhaust gas sensors came about, engine tuners used thermocouples to measure EGT's to optimise fuel mixtures.

Raising the rev limiter is also a typical chip maker strategy, but if an engine's torque peak occurs well prior to redline, there isn't much sense in shifting past the torque peak. I suppose its impressive to your passengers to shift at 8 grand, but if torque is falling off after 6500 RPM, so will the vehicle's acceleration. Do not buy a chip that has disabled the rev limiter. If an engine has mods to improve high RPM flow, the effect is often to move the torque peak to a higher RPM and to slow the rate that torque falls after the peak, so pushing out the rev limit may be beneficial to take advantage of the additional torque.

Additionally, do not buy a chip that disconnects the knock sensor, this can be accomplished in software. Admittedly, Ford's knock sensor is a piece of junk and is prone to 'detect' trace knock when its not really there, but if its not connected, it can't protect your engine if you get a load of rotten fuel. A chip tuner should be willing to answer these questions about rev limiters and knock sensors, if they won't, don't buy.

As for Superchips, I know Peter Wales, Superchip's CEO. He is a straightforward and honest man, and if memory serves, Superchips now has a Dynojet inertial chassis dynamometer. If I were interested in a chip for my Contour, I would ask
them for unchipped and chipped plots of torque -vs- RPM for that application. If their chip actually increases torque, and they're willing to to share the data, then their product merits some consideration.

Just an aside on this torque and horsepower thing. Most of the after market mods for making more horsepower are flow improvers: bigger MAF's, K&N air filters, and low restriction exhaust systems. Generally, these mods will not increase low RPM torque, but will increase high RPM horsepower. The typical effect is increased torque and a slowing of the torque falloff after the torque peak. High RPM horsepower will not launch a car any quicker, low end torque will. There are several members of the Taurus SHO list who have invested thousands of $ on sewer pipe exhausts, hot camshafts, big bore MAF's, and custom EEC software, only to find their ET's several tenth's slower then an experienced driver in a bone stock SHO. Some of these modified SHO's dyno out at more than 50 HP over a stock drive train, but its all above 5500 RPM, which doesn't help launch a 3400 pound sedan. Just goes to show what a good driver's worth...

Usable, low RPM torque requires very precise fuel metering and big bore, after market MAF's sometimes do a poor job of accurately measuring the air mass at moderate flow rates. Yes, they're less restrictive at high flows, so they will make more HP at high RPM's, but sometimes low RPM torque is sacrificed.

All for now,

Gary Morrell
Test Development Engineer
Ford Motor Company



Quando é poderemos ter Engenheiros/tecnicos da Ford Portugal a  esclarecer-nos  desta forma. 8) , assim até da gosto.  

Cumps,

Offline Fredyx
  • 130CV
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 2622
  • Feedback: +0/-0
Sobre os chips....um must (sacado do forum zetecs )
« Responder #1 em: 22 de Junho, 2003, 12:45:22 »
Quer dizer para eu por um chip tenho de tirar um curso, caraças, eu sei lá qual é o chip que eles metem, pelo que eu percebi eles ligam-se todos da mesma maneira, mas, não funcionam todos da mesma forma.
O chip da Superchips é o que mais segurança nos dá, logo acho que não há duvidas.
Se o instalador do chip não souber responder as perguntas que fizermos acerca do knockout sensor e limitadores de rpm quer dizer que não sabem o k estão a instalar.
Pronto e isto foi o k percebi da conversa.

Offline G_Buster

  • 115CV
  • ****
  • Mensagens: 791
  • Feedback: +0/-0
Sobre os chips....um must (sacado do forum zetecs )
« Responder #2 em: 22 de Junho, 2003, 16:02:35 »
Boas,

Ora aí está um post extremamente interessante... n keres por aí o endereço do forum, SFF?

Qto às kestões associadas à mudança de chip/reprogramação, como qq alteração q resolvamos fazer terá q ser levada a cabo por um preparador competente... nada mais ;) Os produtos da Superchips são bastante conceituados e eles tabalham há muitos anos com a Ford, o q leva a crer q estejam perfeitamente identificados com as características/problemas típicos da marca em questão, o q lhes permite oferecer um produto de elevada qualidade. Além disso, têem tb a vantagem de disponibilizarem mapeamentos optimizados levando em linha de conta as alterações q o carro já possa ter, o q é essêncial pra q se tire o maior partido possível do q se fez ao carro sem por em risco a fiabilidade. Claro q existirão muitos outros "chiptuners" capazes de efectuar uma programação como deve ser... mas parece-me q neste campo a experiência é fulcral, o q me leva a dizer q mais vale apostar em nomes "conhecidos" no meio, como por exemplo a Superchips ou o guru da electrónica Ford, Ahmed Bayjoo.

Quanto à kestão da leitura do "knock sensor"... isso não é problema pró ppl dos mk4 e mk5 1.25, pois esses motores não o trazem (daí não serem sensíveis às diferenças do índice de octano ). No entanto, acho q os mk6 já têem essa "alteraçãozinha".

1 abraço, fikem bem.

Gonçalo D.

guest84
  • Visitante
Sobre os chips....um must (sacado do forum zetecs )
« Responder #3 em: 22 de Junho, 2003, 17:10:53 »
ois ppl

os chip do bayjoo sao bem mais baratos k os da superchips enquanto k por exemplo po FRST kusta 500 e tal libras o do amhed anda em 300 libras uma diferença BEM grande.

ja falei com o sunny a esse respeito e ele aconselhou me o bayjoo mas podem ver os preços se chips no catalogo da burtonpower k sao feitos pelos bayjoo :wink:

o contacto do bayjoo e ab_racing@hotmail.com

Offline BUTRE
  • 115CV
  • ****
  • Mensagens: 840
  • Feedback: +0/-0
Sobre os chips....um must (sacado do forum zetecs )
« Responder #4 em: 25 de Junho, 2003, 19:29:16 »
pessoalmente... q se lixe a superchips. De facto ja tive relatorios q sao muito profissionais, mas so se encomendares a eles um chip totalmente custom para o teu carro (o q geralmente e o q e feito na competiçao). Os chips q comercializam geralmente nenhum deles da os resultados q anunciam. :(

Este bayjoo parece MESMO entender muito do assunto no q toca a fords. Pelo q sei e este sr q disponibiliza os chips (ou reprogramaçoes da ecu de origem) para os fords mais alterados de uk. opps... fords q usem ecu's da ford e nao os q usam ecus da pectel nem da autronic.

Antes de se mandarem de cabeça, vejam todas a hipoteses q ha de marcas. Depois e so procurar quem faça mais barato. Por vezes uk e mais barato q pt... estranho mas verdade.